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Liberal TreeHugger

I am a conservative but unlike the current breed of "conservatives" I do not believe that the Republican Party is conservative. The current administration is hell bent on spending money taking away rights and playing a shell game with our taxes. I am starting this post to be a direct assault on the radical conservative movement that seeks to distort the record, lie and dupe the American voters into believing they care, are right, and are conservative.

Wednesday, December 08, 2004

Response to Stew (since I can't post on his site)

My Brother wrote this...

Here's a boot in your ass
Jen and I were driving and she's listening to Toby Keith singing the Angry American song. Which me, being mostly a fan of talk radio (it's just more entertaining than listening to the crap on pop stations), I've somehow never heard. I think it's a great song.

Jen starts telling me about how Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks hates Toby Keith and I'm just wondering why?
So I look into this a little bit and sure enough, she's a war hating liberal.

Now I know this is old news and nobody gives a rats ass about it anymore but this is really amazing to me.
Are all liberals supposed to sign up as peacenicks? Is it mandatory to disagree with all warfare or is it just during conservative administrations? Are liberals also required to sign a disclaimer for intelligence and logic? Because to oppose the war in Iraq/Afghanistan/etc you'd pretty much have to believe that terrorists are doing works of good (and who knows, in the minds of some liberals they probably are).Here's a quote from Toby's song:

My Daddy served in the Army,Where he lost his right eye,
But he flew a flag out in our yard,Till the day that he died
He wanted my mother, my brother, my sister and me,
To grow up and be happy,In the land of the free

What is wrong with this?Terrorists would like nothing more than to KILL YOU. They would happily kill your parents, your children and anyone else that happens to be around.
But it's wrong for us to fight for our freedom.
Unbelievable.

Here is my response:

Stew, You are engaged in spurious logic and divisive rhetoric

When you say things like 'Are all liberals supposed to sign up as peacenicks? Is it mandatory to disagree with all warfare or is it just during conservative administrations? Are liberals also required to sign a disclaimer for intelligence and logic? Because to oppose the war in Iraq/Afghanistan/etc you'd pretty much have to believe that terrorists are doing works of good (and who knows, in the minds of some liberals they probably are).'
No one gets any closer to understanding the other side. It disturbs me that so many people are just not at all interested in the other side at all. Also I will answer your question as an American.
I do oppose war as a solution to a problem. I think what you are seeing here is an administration who looks first at warfare as a first choice solution, then to a rational discourse, or a political process. I oppose this administration. I do not think that it lessens my patriotism. That is what Natalie Maines of the Dixie Chicks objects to I think. The fact that in this American Society to oppose the Administration equals (or has been portrayed as by the NeoCons to equal) loving the terrorists. That is just not true.
The fact is that lobbing bombs at a people has never been effective at making them like you or admire your position. It creates hatred and fear. So perhaps it is that Liberals (it is so stupid to use a blanket categorization like Liberal to cover the diversity of people who oppose military action and reaction but it is what you understand) are more educated and as a result they are taking into account the perspectives that are not represented by the NeoCon ruling class. Imagine if you will being ten years old. Poor. I mean dirt poor. Living in a country that had very little in the way of a public infrastructure. You see your daddy fighting and struggling to provide food and safety to your brothers and sisters and your mother. Then massive warplanes show up and start to blow away everything that you have. Your chickens stop laying eggs because they are freaked out by the bombs, the goats get blown up, the camel or cow stops giving milk. Etc...
Your father goes to defend his homeland.
At this point I think I have lost you because you are still convinces that the Iraqis have attacked us and we are defending our country when it is in fact the opposite.
The kid learns from a neighbor that his daddy is dead because he tried to prevent an invading force from taking his land that had been fought and suffered over for generations.
That kid now knows who to hate and fear. It is now up to him to protect his family. He is going to do whatever he can to defend his world from the invaders.

That is what we have got now. Generations of children, who will always know that America killed their fathers and brothers, destroyed their homes, killed their livestock and ruined their lives.
Americans like you and Jen know that you were not trying to kill innocent people. You are trying to make a living and have some fun. You are being told that it is a necessary thing to do. We have to go get the terrorists before they come here.
The problem is that it is a lie.
So when you compare a dissenting viewpoint to support of those who would kill our families and destroy our lives think about the fact that issues are not polarized. There are more than two sides to a story.
Bush claims that he is a Christian. A lot of people voted for him for that reason. A lot of people in America think that they are Christians too.
Look for a second at what Jesus taught.
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.
When your brother wrongs you forgive him, and when pressed Jesus said when you brother wrongs you seven times forgive him seventy times seven.
Bless those that curse you
Blessed are the peace makers
Blessed are the meek
The old law of eye for an eye no longer applies
By their works you will know them

So how does the "Christian" Bush stack up here? I'd say 0-7 he is striking out on every teaching that Jesus professed.
Verdict, NOT A CHRISTIAN
At least not one that Jesus would recognize.
So before you start accusing people who oppose war, look at the motivation of those who embrace war.
Look also at their experience.
Who in Bush's Cabinet and Administration has served in combat or even in the Military at all?
What ties do Bush and the rest have to the Military Industrial Complex?
Is there a conflict of interest?
See, it is easy to demonize people who are taking the minority position. It does not mean that they are wrong though.
As for Toby Keith, he is just a capitalist. He is making a buck off the sentiment and selling what people are buying. Any hack can slap together a song about 'daddy getting blowed up an fightin fer justice an freedom an the flag an did ah mention freedom???'
He is just exploiting a climate of feverent Americanism. If he could sell songs about eating Brie and sippin Burgundy he would be on it like Rush on an Oxycontin bottle.
To sum up, as a Liberal peacenik I do oppose all war. I especially oppose this administrations use of war to further their agenda. I also oppose the demonization of anyone who dissents as unpatriotic object to the term "Fighting for Freedom" when compared to what we are doing in Iraq. We are colonizing the Middle East. Make no mistake about that.



4 Comments:

At 9:00 PM, Blogger Stew Magoo said...

So Kosovo was bad. We heard all about the "mass graves" that Slobodon Milosovich had, did we ever find them?

The fact is that you disagree with the war because you see it as a political action driven by economic pressure at home. Well, I'm not going to try to talk you out of it. But I think you're wrong. Here's why:

We Jesusland (winners by the way) look at the war in Iraq as an insurance policy. We're not "colonizing" the Middle East, we're freeing the people so that they can choose their own leaders. If you disagree, ask yourself why it is that we didn't invade Iraq years ago. You're conveniently leaving GAPS of prodigous proportions in your "logic". But that's okay. I'd love to hear liberals just simply say that they just hate Bush and the war because it's making him more effective as a leader.

But that isn't going to happen. So back to my Martini.

 
At 9:50 AM, Blogger Mistake Master said...

Umm Yes we did find the mass graves. What the hell does that have to do with the topic?
I am still amazed at how you can ignore and marginalize all of what I said and only focus on something that I never said.
I don't think the war makes Bush a more effective leader.
I think that we invaded Iraq three years ago give or take a few months. Why did'nt we invade years ago? You ask. Because Clinton was a Statesman not a warmonger. Bush Sr. Did invade. Before that Saddam was our agent in the Middle East of course you want to ignore that.
So exactly what gaps am I leaving in my logic?
Please enlighten me!

 
At 6:45 AM, Blogger Stew Magoo said...

Sorry for the confusion, I consulted the Autorantic Virtual Moonbat since you immediately brought up Iraq (the song/post/intent is about fighting the Taliban and any other terrorist group) and that led me to the whole "mass graves" Kosovo thing. I was trying to "speak your language" there...

Anyway, back to enlightenment:
You pretty much make your position clear when you talk about, focus on, gravitate to and insinuate yourself with the Bush/Iraq conflict. You liberals cannot get off it. There's so many reasons for you to complain, bitch, wail and rend stuff that you completely lose focus on the fact that our countrymen are over there fighting for the way of life that you enjoy.

I call that hypocrisy.

PS's
How're those Japanese doing out there in the South Pacific?
How about the Germans, they still seem to have beer and Oktoberfest yearly. They doing okay?
Italy?
Korea?

Shall I continue or are you starting to get my drift?

 
At 9:37 AM, Blogger Mistake Master said...

I'd like to thank Josh or 'liberalfacehugger' for the preceeding gibberish.

Now Stew for your post, I think what we have here is a failure to misunderestimate.

No seriously, you opine that Liberals can't get off the Bush/Iraq thing. You link that to 'us' missing the point or ignoring the fact that American men and women are over there fighting and dying in Iraq to support 'our way of life'.
The thing is, see... This is not my way of life.

I do not support the lifestyle that Bush and the rest of his supporters want to lead.
I do not support mass consumption.
I do not support constant growth at the expense of all else.
I do not see it as a sustainable model. I do not believe that they have the correct vision for America or the World.
I reject it.
I strive to defeat it.
I want our troops out of Iraq.
I want the Millitary dismantled.
I want America to apologize to the rest of the world for overconsuming and creating an environment of strife and discord. I want for the CIA to stop fomenting dissent in democratic nations so that we can prop up a 'friendly leader' like Saddam Hussein, Agusto Pinochet etc...
You are ignorant if you want to think that Ameircan foreign policy is above reproach and that we are just trying to protect ourselves from all those bad guy's out there. I have news for you. We are the baddest of the bad guy's.
So there may be a few meanies out there but chances are they were at one time, or still are, our guy's.
Bush is not an idiot, he is evil.
I hate to say it but I'm right and you are wrong. By the time you realize it I fear it will be too late.

As for Kosovo, WWII etc...The difference between those conflicts is that they were not unilateral actions taken by the administration in direct opposition to the will of the people. Kosovo was an UN sanctioned action, WWII we all know that story, so don't try to distort what is happening in Iraq. We are not there 'protecting Freedom' as you and the rest of the sheep put it. We are ensuring profits for years to come for Halliburton, Kissenger, GE, and the rest of the MIC.
Sorry to disrupt you utopian vision of America. Well actually I'm not sorry. I hope that you can begin to realize that the minority is 49%.... Not as Bush put's it, "a focus group" but a motivated thoughtful dedicated cross section of America. We don't like being pigeon-holed as 'Liberals' to be dismissed by self reighteous bigots and fear mongers. So you may begin to see that those songs about patriotism are craven attempts to capitalize on your need to feel good about something that with any real insight falls apart and is revealed as the sordid criminal act that it is.

There
Flame Away

 

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